Eyeliner, Razors, High Heels, and Bras
April 26th, 2006I find it bizarre that so many people apparently think that makeup (that is, specifically, the conscious decision not to wear it) is not a feminist issue.
Okay. I am not attacking anybody here. I do not care what you do with yourself, that is your business. You are allowed to dress and act however you like and I will not try to stop you. I may, however, question why you feel the need to conform to popular images of ideal beauty and ideal femininity, if in fact you do. I am not saying that you are doing anything wrong, per se, but I do believe the pressures which make you want to achieve the popular beauty ideal are wrong. Largely, I couldn’t really give a shit what you want to do with your body or how you rationalize it if you can extend to me the same courtesy.
But when [American, can't speak for anyone else] feminists insist that the standards of insecurity which are shoved down every woman’s throat every single day don’t exist, I get irritated. When feminists insist that there is no pressure forcing women to wear makeup, shave, wear skirts or high heels or bras, etc., I get pissed off. When feminists who do conform to what just happens to be fashionable take it as a personal affront that I insist on my right to not give in, I get angry.
Whenever the issue is brought up, some people will get defensive and feel the need to explain exactly why they do whatever the thing is which is the subject at hand. “I prefer the feel of smooth, hairless skin.” “I see wearing makeup as artistic expression.” (However, I do accept the fact that bras are comfortable for some people and uncomfortable for others so I’m not bringing that one in here.) Fine. Explain your reasons, but understand that in many cases, you are diverting the subject at hand, namely: that’s great if it works for you, but can’t you support those of us who can’t or don’t want to conform? After all, that was the whole point why we brought it up.
I don’t believe it is possible to freely choose to wear makeup, wear high heels, shave, etc., etc., in society as it stands today. I do not think this free choice exists. It would be great if it did and then everyone could express themselves visually however they cared to and no one would judge them as “filthy”, “disgusting”, “not taking care of herself” or a “dyke”. How wonderful that would be. But things aren’t that way.
Don’t you ever wonder WHY wearing makeup “makes you feel pretty”? WHY you “prefer the feel of smooth skin” or why not shaving makes you feel “grungy” or whatever else? WHY you feel “exposed” if you don’t wear certain undergarments if you really don’t have to for medical or comfort-related reasons? WHY short women “need” to wear heels for the extra height?
You probably won’t like the answers, but don’t worry, really: it’s not a reflection on you. Internalizing the standards pushed on you isn’t your fault and doesn’t make you a bad person, but you still ought to acknowledge the reasons why.
As an example, let’s go down my personal “beauty standard conformity checklist”. I don’t like makeup. Bras are uncomfortable. Heels kill my feet and I can’t walk in them. Two of the three here are strictly comfort-related issues, which makes it pretty easy for me to just say no.
But then…my dirty little secret: I have been known to shave. Not all the time because I have thick hair and sensitive skin so it takes forever and causes irritation or ingrown hairs. My skin would be healthier if I never did it. But I do anyway. It’s hell on my legs.
Why do I do it, then?
I could say it’s because I think skirts or swimsuits look bad with hairy legs. But why do I think that? Because I’ve internalized the message that it’s wrong and bad and I can’t seem to get over it even though I know that a) it’s bad for me personally because of my sensitive skin and b) if people can’t deal with it that’s their weird hangup that has nothing to do with me.
I acknowledge that this is an issue I have trouble with. I acknowledge that it’s hard to actually resist every aspect of the reigning standard. I don’t think it’s hypocritical to oppose something in theory, something little like wearing makeup or shaving, and then do it anyway because of the social pressure. I just think it sucks that anyone feels the need to do it at all if they’d rather not.
If there is a woman on this Earth who is truly free of all pressure to conform to her society’s standards, and she happens to choose to follow them anyway for reasons of personal expression and empowerment, good for her.
I don’t think she exists. I’m idealistic, yes, but not that idealistic.
These things are a feminist issue. I don’t think anyone is obligated to NOT conform if they happen to like looking/acting/being a certain way simply in order to make a statement of feminist solidarity, no. Of course not. That not solving the problem, it’s an opposite extreme. It’s imposing an anti-standard. That’s certainly not a solution and certainly not what I’m advocating. Do whatever makes you feel most comfortable, even if the reason for comfort is knowing you won’t be harassed or you’ll have it easier.
But until women actually are free from the pressure to dress and groom themselves a certain way, I’m not going to believe that most people simply “happen” to agree with the prevailing standard of their own entirely free will with no influence from the culture around them. To think that seems unspeakably naive.
April 27th, 2006 at 4:19 am
I wear makeup on occassion. When I do, I view it as artistic expression; I go for bright colours that accent whatever outfit I chose, and make it really obvious that I’m wearing makeup. I like it. However, that doesn’t erase the fact that people assume I’m wearing makeup when I’m not. I’ve gotten comments. Multiple ones. People are truly, honestly, geniunely surprised when I have to inform them that no, in fact I am not wearing makeup. It’s funny, but in the greater scheme of things it makes me very sad. Makeup should not be the default for women. We are all beautiful as we are.
I also have a preference for shaven legs (on men, too; I think part of my attraction to Asian men is that they are much less hairy than Western ones), but I don’t trust the reasoning behind it. I’ve actually almost completely stopped shaving as a political statement (I trim my pubic area mostly for the comfort value; it chafes if the hair gets too long in certain areas).
I am often filled with shame over my hair — especially when others can see it. When I’m sexual with someone new, I often sullenly inform them that I’m hairy (to warn them not to make a comment, but it’s a very defensive reaction). Not, by the way, that any but one of my partners (and he was the abusive one) has cared. My most recent one was a bit surprised when I told him I had trimmed my pubic area — he was like, “Why?” when I told him.
When my pits are visible in class, I know it. I think about it. I feel bad. It’s so incredibly fucked up. I find myself in fear of summer here, because I’m going to be wearing tank tops and probably some skirts if my dad comes up and brings them. Short skirts. That show lots of leg. I had similar feelings of shame when I was in Miami (where my family lives) and wore those kinds of clothes.
I think that there’s room for personal expression in issues like these, but to deny the existence of patriarichal influences in areas of “beauty” is just ignorant. And, frankly, harmful. I don’t think people should tell women what to do with their bodies, but neither should we stay silent on the compulsory beauty culture that makes a true free choice impossible.
April 27th, 2006 at 1:18 pm
I like what you’ve said here. I think that a lot of women who obey the dominant paradigm of beauty while claiming that their appearance is an informed choice need to examine themselves more. As you acknowledged, it’s not a choice at all. Personally, I used to feel I was making such a choice. I’ve been shedding it little by little over time. Don’t shave my legs or trim my pubic hair, but I still shave my armpits because I notice a significant amount of extra body odor on myself when I don’t; I guess it clings to the hairs. And I feel like that is a rational reason.
As to makeup, I used to wear a lot of it, all the time. Now I’m down to just mascara and powder. And my reasons for those are still sketchy. I feel like when I don’t wear mascara, my eyelashes are invisible. And this somehow makes me undesirable, in my head. Damn internalized beauty culture! It also has to do with some gender issues I have with wanting to make sure people KNOW I’m a girl, and somehow dark eyelashes are what will send off the correct signals. And it doesn’t make any sense because I also like doing male drag on special occasions. But I feel an absurd brainwashed need to keep those two gender identities really seperate and defined.
And earlbecke, I wanted to say that I’m glad you recovered from your little blog “hiccup” and I’m glad you’re still posting. I’m not an oft-commenting person anywhere, but I am a regular reader. Keep it up
April 28th, 2006 at 2:26 am
I was convinced to buy a sleeveless top recently (I needed convincing because, don’t laugh, I don’t like people seeing my arms). I put it on later at home and well, I’d never really had reason to notice my armpit hair before due to my “cover my damn arms” thing. It bothered me. So I carefully shaved it enough so it wasn’t as noticeable (to me), but didn’t look like I’d shaved it. Because I’m vain, but I’m also bloody-minded. Bloody-minded sometimes wins.
April 28th, 2006 at 2:13 pm
I don’t believe it is possible to freely choose to wear makeup, wear high heels, shave, etc., etc., in society as it stands today. I do not think this free choice exists. It would be great if it did and then everyone could express themselves visually however they cared to and no one would judge them as “filthy”, “disgusting”, “not taking care of herself” or a “dyke”. How wonderful that would be. But things aren’t that way.
I’ve heard arguments to this effect before and I still can’t agree with it nor do I understand it. I realize that there is societal pressure to conform to the existing, sexist beauty standard. I realize that women judge other women based on these (patriarchically defined) standards and act accordingly. However, earlbecke and the various commenters here all describe consciously choosing to conform or not conform to said beauty standards. Some choose to conform to some things, other to different ones and some to not at all. Now, wouldn’t that imply some level of choice since most of you all are bucking the trend? Or am I totally off-base with that?
For example, if you do go braless, heeless, with hairy legs and pits and no one says anything, is that really societal pressure or are your uncomfortable feelings derived from your own internalization of the patriarchy’s standards? I’m not trying to be the “straight guy derailing the conversation” here, I’m honestly curious to hear a compelling argument because I just don’t get it. If you’re feeling internalized “digust” at your decision, but not experiencing any outside pressure, how is this not free choice in maintaining the accepted beauty standard?
April 28th, 2006 at 2:15 pm
ahem. internalized “disgust”
April 28th, 2006 at 5:57 pm
eponymous: No, I don’t think you’re derailing, you’re just trying to understand. It’s not that there isn’t a choice, it’s that it’s not a completely free choice. It’s a difficult one to make. There’s a choice, but it’s not a “free” choice when there’s obvious social pressure to act/dress/groom oneself a certain way. It’s not a neutral decision, like, say, what brand of potato chips (or whatever) you prefer. I think women who claim that it’s possible to just do whatever we want without being judged, facing unwanted attention, being mocked, and so on… aren’t really paying attention. And that’s basically what I’m saying: perhaps it’s not totally in context since I’m not linking to the discussion(s) which sparked this, but there are a lot of feminists who seem to think there’s no social pressure to fit cultural norms whatsoever, which is obviously not true, anywhere.
As for it merely being internalized disgust at oneself…that’s a personal issue, yes, but if only it were that simple. Some people DO comment on random women’s attire, makeup or lack thereof, etc. Often. Loudly. Even if they’re not saying it to me in particular, I definitely hear it and get the message. It makes me uncomfortable to dress the way I like around certain people because I know they’ll judge me for it and say rude things, even if they’re polite to my face. I know they’re assholes and their opinion shouldn’t matter, but things like that still have an impact and they still hurt. Does that make sense?
April 28th, 2006 at 6:08 pm
I should mention here that I know part of my shame over my hairly legs spawns from my father. He repeatedly makes comments about how gross it is, even after I got into a huge row with him about it. And he wonders why we don’t have a better relationship.
April 29th, 2006 at 8:35 am
Thanks for the explanation, earlbecke, but I’m still having a hard time grasping this. Are you basically arguing that if your choice challenges or goes against the status quo in any manner and someone, somewhere objects, your choice is not really yours and you’re really just bowing to coerscion even if you violate the status quo?
So, the reason that I choose *not* to wear eye-liner and nail polish (even though it does make me look fabulous) is due to pressure from the patriarchy to not look stereotypically “feminine?” And, it’s not because I am to lazy to spend time doing it every morning or that due to my job I would have to reapply nail polish every other day or that I get tired of smearing my eyeliner whenever I rub my eyes?
I understand and acknowledge that there’s more pressure on women to confirm to the accepted notions of femininity than men being forced to conform to accepted standards of masculinity due to gender inequalities. And, I know that there’s a status quo that people will call you out on if you violate it. I know because, in many respects I’ve been there (hairstyles, hair colors, aforementioned makeup, etc.). Those, to me, were all choices I made that were specifically calculated to violate social norms. And, consquently, I endured stares, unwanted commentary, and outright hostility for doing so. However, what you are suggesting (in my mind, at least) implies that there are absolutely no free choices (even those that I made) and even in violating the status quo you are still beholden to it because someone objects.
April 29th, 2006 at 8:45 am
Also, let me add that I also understand what you mean about not having “absolute free choice” in matters. For instance, a young woman raised in the Utah desert amongst a polygamous Mormon sect isn’t going to be able to make a “free” choice at 15 whether or not she wants to marry the 80 year old patriarch because she’s never been to a city larger than Ogden and never been outside Utah to see how other people’s worlds work. Similarly, if she refuses, she’ll be cast out of her house, out of her clan, won’t be able to support herself because the system prevents women from owning property unless they themselves are property of a man. She’s trapped in a repressive society and any choice she makes is going to be a product of her oppression caused by the patriarchical system in which she was raised.
Similarly, someone who’s never driven a car, never ridden in one and understands only that they get you from one point to another isn’t really making a fully free choice if they walk into a dealship. Their ignorance prevents them from understanding key points of the transaction.
I just can’t seem to draw a parallel from this to being aware of what the status quo is, violating it by choice and yet still not having a free choice because…you’re violating the status quo. Please tell me if I’m missing something.
I know they’re assholes and their opinion shouldn’t matter, but things like that still have an impact and they still hurt. Does that make sense?
Well, other people’s opinions do matter because we are social animals and we don’t live in a fully fragmented, individualistic society. But in my opinion, if you maintain your decision to violate the status quo despite their attempts to coerce you back into line, then (and especially then) you’re truly making a free choice on your attire. Judgemental assholes be damned.
April 29th, 2006 at 9:25 am
I’m glad you understand why other people’s opinions can have such an impact. Sometimes in conversations like this, people will basically say, “But that’s just their opinion, so ignore them! There’s no pressure there, what are you talking about?” as if it’s just that easy. They refuse to accept social pressure as a valid concern unless someone’s holding a gun to your head. Which…makes a lot of feminist concerns, like sexual harassment, unimportant and silly in their minds because they just don’t understand why it matters on anything but a personal, individual level.
I think any confusion here is mostly just semantics, and what each of us is trying to convey by “freedom”. Obviously, yes, a choice is possible, but there are feminists who argue that how a woman chooses to present herself is a completely neutral decision from a social standpoint…and that’s not true, because none of us makes our choices in a vacuum. We’re always affected by the culture and people around us. There are women who claim that their personal choice just HAPPENS to be in line with the dominant cultural ideal, but that they’re really just doing it because they want to, with no real analysis on why they feel that following the status quo is the superior option to rejecting social convention. (An aside: There are plenty of people who wear makeup, etc., who do it in a way that I think is pretty subversive, like in the Goth subculture. Tekanji touched on this when she talked about how she likes to wear very visible, brightly colored makeup. There are plenty of ways to still do some of these things, I think, without giving in to the pressure to do it the “right” way. I’m much more willing to accept these sorts of explanations at face value, because they’re usually more thought-out.)
This goes the other way, too. If you choose to just do whatever you want and that happens to offend some people’s sensibilities, suddenly, despite any personal reasons you might have (comfort, health, hygiene), violating the status quo becomes a statement. You have to actually defend yourself because people will assume you’re doing it to try to send some message. Other women will be threatened because they feel they’re being judged just because you choose not to do something. (This can be seen whenever the subject comes up. For example, I talked about my personal distaste for bras, and suddenly a whole bunch of women posted comments, almost apologetically, explaining why they wear them as if I were juding them for not being “good” feminists — which I would never do! I don’t really care about the breasts of random people because I think what they want to do with them is none of my business.)
I think that’s a big reason I’m a feminist. I just want to be able to make informed, well-reasoned choices about my own body without it being a statement, because, ideally, it’s not, and it has nothing to do with anyone else.
April 30th, 2006 at 2:41 am
[...] Definition: Eyeliner, Razors, High Heels, and Bras Are Feminist Issues [...]
April 30th, 2006 at 2:43 am
[...] Definition: Eyeliner, Razors, High Heels, and Bras Are Feminist Issues [...]
April 30th, 2006 at 5:44 am
[...] Definition [...]
April 30th, 2006 at 9:33 am
Interesting discussion. I am way lucky to have a husband with a British mom who didn’t shave her legs. He swears he doesn’t care whether I do or not, and I usually don’t, but in the warmer weather I often cave in because I feel judged when out in public. People seem so easily grossed out by leg hair. Why should I care what the F a stranger thinks? It grieves me that it gets under my skin that way.
But then, even though we live in the Pacific Northwest where people are a bit more relaxed about things, my husband does find that his beard (though neatly trimmed) seems to create anxiety and even hostility in people. So although stupid stuff like heels and makeup are definitely a feminist issue, I would say that both sexes suffer from social pressure over grooming. And even if you conform to what the majority are doing, you’re still going to come up against judgement from people because you’re not doing it the way they would, or you’re not doing enough of it, or whatever.
April 30th, 2006 at 9:42 am
Amen! Loving my body and doing what’s comfortable and healthy for it is definitely a part of my feminist expression. But at the same time, I try to limit the amount of criticism I have to listen to. I don’t wear sleeveless stuff and don’t wear things that would make it obvious that I’m not wearing a bra. So the only differences that are really noticeable are my flat shoes, my lack of makeup, and my hair. It’s a look that some might call “frumpy”, but nothing that would cause people to question my femininity.
So I wonder sometimes. What if I had facial hair? Or if the hair on my legs were dark or coarse enough to really stand out? Would I still have the courage to say, “I’m not changing a thing!”? I hope I would, but I don’t know.
April 30th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
my husband does find that his beard (though neatly trimmed) seems to create anxiety and even hostility in people
I’ve noticed that as well. When I first grew my beard, I was a backpacker in Europe and went for the grizzly- adams, “i haven’t been near a razor in a month” look without any issues. However, returning back to the States was a rude awakening, especially being strip-searched in the Philly airport (I’m Jewish so with a bushy beard and healthy tan I look vaguely like an Arab). Since I’ve been back I’ve trimmed the beard back to a fairly neat goatee, but it’s still much different from what I get when I go clean shaven.
I think any confusion here is mostly just semantics, and what each of us is trying to convey by “freedom”.
Agreed.
Obviously, yes, a choice is possible, but there are feminists who argue that how a woman chooses to present herself is a completely neutral decision from a social standpoint…and that’s not true, because none of us makes our choices in a vacuum.
Exactly. The myth of total autonomy is one that we as Americans are strangely wed to…
We’re always affected by the culture and people around us. There are women who claim that their personal choice just HAPPENS to be in line with the dominant cultural ideal, but that they’re really just doing it because they want to, with no real analysis on why they feel that following the status quo is the superior option to rejecting social convention.
Definitely. These would be the same type of women throw their lot in with the patriarchy and seek approval by acting in a socially proscribed way. I think women like those that have been posting on this thread are making the types of choices that I’m describing. They realize what they’re doing is reinforcing the status quo, but it’s easier to wear sleeves with hairy armpits than it is to endure the stares and rudeness of persons whose apparent goal is to be part of the women’s fashion police.
I think that’s a big reason I’m a feminist. I just want to be able to make informed, well-reasoned choices about my own body without it being a statement, because, ideally, it’s not, and it has nothing to do with anyone else.
Amen. The radical notion that your opinion is valuable, your autonomy is important and your value is inherent in your being, not your gender or femininity.
May 1st, 2006 at 12:22 am
MEN:
· A conservative suit in a dark blue or dark gray with a long-sleeved white shirt. The tie should be conservative but in-style. Dark sock (over the calf) with dark freshly shined shoes.
· Jewelry should be limited to a wristwatch and wedding ring.
· Fingernails should be clean and well manicured.
· Facial hair should be neatly trimmed.
WOMEN:
Women today have a few more options when it comes to career dressing, but similar principles apply. Conservative is still the rule of thumb for interviews.
· A business suit in a subdued color is best for first interviews. Natural fibers work best. Dress in today’s styles, but keep the hemline close to knee length and keep blouses modest.
A conservative or executive dress is fine for additional interviews.
IF it was not required to look, dress and act a certain way. This advice from my recruiter going to an interview would never have been said to me.
I refuse to wear make up, I don’t shave cause I really don’t need to, (very thin and soft hair)
and I do not absolutely, EVER wear a dress/ skirt. PERIOD.
Why? Easy access of course.. If you don’t want to be raped. Don’t make it easy for them.
I agree with everything you said. There is pressure to conform. I have been turned down for too many jobs in 5 yrs. TOO MANY. I have had temp jobs for 10 yrs now. No perm job, no insurance, and I got injured 2 yrs ago. I am stuck between “picky” for jobs because I cannot do my job with the disability I have now. And I can’t get government insurance b/c I live with my Parents…. Isn’t that a nice catch 22.
I went to the hospital, they said I wasn’t hurt and sent me home. Went to a back specialist he did the same thing. I cannot get medical help. I haven’t even had a CT scan. They will not admit my pain. They say it will go away.. And I have had back pain now for 2 YEARS. It’s not going away, and I can’t bend down, and I can barely walk. So I am screwed to put it lightly. The pressure is even more sever when you have gained 30lbs as a result of not being able to move. I am called fat, lazy, and good for nothing. I have 2 degrees and I can’t get a job.
Those feminists who insist that this isn’t part of it, aren’t real feminists. Nope, they haven’t seen the side of nasty Patriarchy.
Loosely Twisted
May 1st, 2006 at 12:45 am
Wasn’t Trying to derail the thread, I am not very articulate. I appologize for that. I was trying to describe that I get all sorts of feedback from complete strangers!
Smile, you look like hell. Says the man in the grocery isle. As if he has the right to tell me to do anything otherwise.
You need to loose weight, it would help with your gimp leg. says the snooty woman behind me. 2 slaps in one statement. THIS IS NORMAL. Where ever I go, it doesn’t matter, I get insults.
Since when isn’t this pressure? My own mother gets mad at me when I take her gift of the “new Makeup” she decided to get me for my birthday and throw it back at her. Thanks for nothing mom, if I had wanted makeup I would have ASKED for it.
This supposedly isn’t pressure?
My ex-husbands wife calls me a tramp, (did so in court even) because I have not remarried to allow another man to Own Me)
This isn’t pressure either is it?
Especially when said Judge took my full custody away b/c I was too emotional over my kids.
I get told by anyone, that I should smile and be happy. The last person to tell me that, got socked in the arm with a HAVE A NICE DAY. I hope to god I left a bruise and they dont’ tell another woman that same thing.
I can’t dress comfortably, I can’t dress the way I want. Not if I want to be treated with any sort of decentcy, and even then the fat comments have got to Go!
5′4 155lbs. (not that I like to admit it) but two yrs of being injured and no excersize and you tell me how much weight you will gain.
May 1st, 2006 at 10:58 am
Sorry, the point of your post fell apart for me in the second paragraph:
If my decisions (or default settings) are only “rationalizations”, then not only do you care, but you are condescending as hell. It’s great to talk about the patriarchy, to explain why high heels are a feminist issue, but it is also important to accept women as autonomous beings capable of making informed decisions, and not having to justify those decisions to others.
All “decisions” are equally suspect, are equally susceptible to rationalization. How about we move beyond critiques about body hair, or the lack thereof, as a political statement, and instead make the stronger political statement that it is a bad idea to continue to stress looks in a political discussion?
Loosely, I’m very sorry for your disability and other problems. Whether or not you wear skirts makes no never mind to me, but I’m more than a little horrified at the equation “skirt=rape victim”. Please don’t tell me you also believe the thing about overalls?
May 1st, 2006 at 11:19 am
Kaethe: I don’t know that everyone is rationalizing their decisions. Some people clearly are (and I know it’s out of context of the many, many online conversations which sparked this train of thought, so you don’t have much to judge my reaction on). I am. It’s really none of my business whether people are or not. I’m sorry you took that one statement out of the entire post so negatively.
How about we move beyond critiques about body hair, or the lack thereof, as a political statement, and instead make the stronger political statement that it is a bad idea to continue to stress looks in a political discussion?
Agreed. It shouldn’t matter. I don’t think it’s right that some feminists insist that women who decide to do things they don’t agree with personally as a political statement are being “bad” feminists or are upholding the patriarchy. Unfortunately, at the present time, it does matter, which isn’t to say that the bigger picture as you present it should be ignored; instead that should be stressed and I’m sorry if I didn’t do a very good job at that. I think my comment to eponymous pretty much says it all: “I think that’s a big reason I’m a feminist. I just want to be able to make informed, well-reasoned choices about my own body without it being a statement, because, ideally, it’s not, and it has nothing to do with anyone else.”
Loosely Twisted: You have added some interesting points about how pressure affects your decisions and everyday life, which I think add some valuable context to the dicussion, but I am also going to have to call you out on your statement about skirts causing (or at least enabling) rape. I’m sure you didn’t mean to offend, but the reality is that no woman “causes” any man to rape her by her choices — though there are sometimes (and I would say more rarely than most people believe) precautions a woman can take to avoid being at risk for rape, it is the rapist’s decision, ultimately, to rape, and all the common wisdom about what makes a “good” vicitm and how rapists choose their victims, really aren’t true. Most rape is not stranger rape, it’s commited by a date, an intimate partner, or (horrifyingly enough) a family member. If someone really wants to rape a woman, whether or not access is easier probably won’t make much of a difference.
May 1st, 2006 at 12:13 pm
Yay yay and yay some more. I get so sick of trying to justify why I don’t shave, wear makeup or wear heels. I wear a bra some of the time for comfort. If it’s uncomfortable, I rip it off and gleefully toss it across the room. LOL
I am 33 and I haven’t shaved or touched makeup since I was 19. I am a bit weird about wearing sleeveless things for all the reasons you mentioned, but I WILL NOT shave no matter what. It goes against absolutely everything I believe in. I don’t care that my pits smell perhaps a bit more than they might if I didn’t. I actually HATE that freakin’ copout, because most men don’t shave their pits, and they don’t stink or if they do, it’s called “musky”. What the fuck ever. I don’t stink, and if I did, so what. It’s more important that I hold true to my ideals.
From an anthropological POV, makeup is designed to make women’s features mimick that of BABIES… big disproportionate eyes, disproportionate puffy lips and pink cheeks. Adult females don’t look this way naturally. It’s supposed to bring out some nurturing quality in men. GMAFB. Or teach them to be pervs or pedophiles or abusers, if you ask me. But then again, I’m a tad on the radical side.
May 2nd, 2006 at 12:16 am
I agree that no choices can be made in a vaccuum and that it’s a little *too* convenient for women to make the claim their autonomous choice to wear make-up/shave/wear heels/whatever has nothing to do with the patriarchial standard but just happens by sheer happy coincidence to fall in line with it.
However, I think it is important to acknowledge that recognizing and analyzing the very real external sources of our motives for engaging in any or all of these behaviours doesn’t necessarily obligate us to consciously reject them in order to be considered a “true” feminist. As you note, our reasons for wearing makeup regularly and shaving our body hair or choosing heels over other styles of shoes are varied, multi-faceted and they are our own.
May 3rd, 2006 at 6:00 am
I have too much to say to put it all in your comments, so I wrote a post about this issue at my site here.
May 3rd, 2006 at 9:29 am
Well, I like wearing makeup and so on, on occasion. Oddly enough the pressure to “put on a little makeup, honey” and other fussy fashion tips has come primarily from other women, in my experience. I resent having to put on uncomfortable bras and “covering up” for corporate gigs. In that instance, if I don’t conform, I don’t get paid. Apart from that there’s not much pressure at this point I can’t cheerfully ignore, with an effort. If some random dude doesn’t approve of my unkempt hair and unshaven legs; tough shit. If some random chick doesn’t approve of my velvet bustier and platform heels: tough shit, also.
oh, and I also enjoy putting makeup and heels on cute boys.
May 3rd, 2006 at 9:33 am
and: I’m sorry (and anrgy) if you’re getting comments like “disgusting dyke” and so forth. Speaking as a dyke, I do feel frustrated at the implication (as I read it) that women who like to paint and primp are more likely to be judgmental and disapproving of you than those who don’t. Personally I’ve found it works both ways, and that it feels equally crappy to get sneers from the anti-feminists and the anti-femmes.
May 3rd, 2006 at 9:41 am
Finally: as long as we’re talking about examining motives. I have to note: if you’re doing something primarily because you feel that it’s “resisting” the dominant paradigm (as opposed to, hey, this is what makes me feel good), then I can understand why it would feel like it’s a no-win situation. Who says you have to “actually resist every aspect of the reigning standard?” Shit, I’d have trouble with that, too, if I thought that that was what I had to do in order to be “free” or whatnot.
>Largely, I couldn’t really give a shit what you want to do with your body or how you rationalize it if you can extend to me the same courtesy.
May 3rd, 2006 at 4:35 pm
I really think you’re looking at the issue here exactly as it should be looked at. Which beauty standards individual women adhere to isn’t something for us to get defensive over, just something to consider when we think about beauty standards in general. Thanks for the great points about this.
May 8th, 2006 at 12:51 pm
[...] There have been a few interesting posts in response to my post Eyeliner, Razors, High Heels, and Bras. I really think that much of what different authors are describing is tangential to my original post, but…that doesn’t mean I didn’t find what they had to say interesting.
[...]
May 8th, 2006 at 1:03 pm
[...] There have been a few interesting posts in response to my post Eyeliner, Razors, High Heels, and Bras. I really think that much of what different authors are describing is tangential to my original post, but…that doesn’t mean I didn’t find what they had to say interesting.
[...]
May 29th, 2006 at 1:32 pm
I grew up with a hippyish mother who didnt shave (but didn’t really need to) and didn’t wear makeup. It was never something that I was indoctrinated with so my irregular shaving schedule and the not wearing makeup business wasn’t a conscious choice I really ever made.. It’s not something I was ever terribly into nor was it imparted on me that it was necessary. It’s just not me. Never had any complaints, really - except for maybe during junior high where it was everybody’s favorite joke that I didn’t shave my legs - but I got past that. But it also showed me that there -are- repercussions for not fitting into the mold. But that’s okay. It’s certainly better than the alternative - pretending to be something you are not.
July 6th, 2006 at 10:07 pm
I know this comment is a little late, but I’m glad you wrote about this issue. My mother thinks it’s “unhygeinic” not to shave one’s legs. Or at least she did. My sister never does, and already being “different” requires my mother’s actual help with this endeavor, so she doesn’t at all. I must say, I feel badly about it, because I hate shaving my own legs, but I think it’s rather repulsive. And I know I’ve been conditioned to think that. Because frankly, it’s strange. My sister wears clothes that would normally be sanctioned as “girly”–short skirts, frilly tops, that sort of thing. And I wonder, would it be better for me if she were some sort of “hippy”? That way the stereotype would fit into its nice little box. Either way, when my legs are attacked for being, “gross” I comment on how “gross” it is to have a huge crop of hair on one’s head, then. And I always tell myself I’m not going to shave my legs, that they’ll dry up and the hair will grow back fast anyway. Then I always do. And I hate it, but maybe one day I’ll find the strength to just say, “fuck it.”
As for the makeup, I don’t know why but I feel naked without it. I’ve even been told that I look pretty without it, but I just can’t not wear it. I’ve been like this since I was twelve.
I’m such a tool.
If I ever have daughters I’ll try not to let this crap get to them.
August 16th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Very very late comment - but I just read this/found this blog.
You know when I was really young I use to wear whatever I wanted, even if they were high-waters (( capri’s weren’t around yet )), and I never really noticed, or cared, until my cousin pointed it out. She didn’t even say it in a negative tone, but more of a shocked kind of way. But I think somehow that got me to think, I really was an oblivious kid, and all of a sudden I *couldnt* just wear anything and not care, *I* noticed how I looked, *I* got self-concious about it. I began to notice if somebody was looking at me, and wondering why.. Slowly as the years have gone by, Im becoming more and more feminine, and sometimes I worry if I’m doing it for myself.. or somebody else… I’m 19 now, and I want to feel beautiful.. and I connect that with make-up, dresses, flawless skin, etc, etc.
I hate my back, its scarred, I hate my forhead, its too big. Im brown, I have thick hair, I hate my legs even if I shave… I cant even feel comfortable with my boyfriend…
Why cant I be beautiful even when Im just me?
October 12th, 2006 at 8:43 pm
Ok, so, im a guy writting on this blog. I am actually doing research on feminists groups for a college essay, and lately I have been taking interest
in some of the messages feminists try to send out to all the women (and men) in the world. First of all, I know how terrible societal standards of beauty are.
My exgirlfriend (who I broke up with almost a year ago and still deeply love) is a model. We had to end the relationship because she spends 10 months out of the
year in europe, working hard (modeling is not that glamorous job people think it is even if you do Giorgio Armani, D&G…) and she has gone through many depresions and has been on the verge of anorexy. We still talk two to four times a week, and she keeps me up to date with all the problems in her world. But getting to the point:
conforming to societal standards of beauty can lead to depression as well as an unhealthy psychological and physical life. So for her health, I would like for society to “tone down” the level of importance they give to physical beauty. However, I see a trend in (some) feminists to take it to the other extreme. Fight this by not shaving, not wearing “sexy” outfits, not wearing makeup….
First, it is natural for people to want to attract members of the opposite sex, and a visual attraction is the most efficient in the first stages. Also, by not “conforming” women (and men) become less pleasing to the sight (I just didnt know how to say it nicely in any other way). Imagine these women who dont “conform” to be men. To address the two economic extremes lets give the example of the CEO of a Fortune 500 and a worker who pumps gas into our car at a gas station. Would you like to encounter either one smelling sweaty, with food stains on their clothes (note that their outfits are sitll very different) and dirty teeth. WWould you trust your money to a man who is careless about how he looks or want a man working on your car who just doesnt care about anything pertaining society. Because thats the image they give, regardless of what you may want think. What I am saying is that the way you carry yourself and they way you lookk is important. And if feminists want to help other girls to deal with the emotional strss they should teach that looking your best is something you do freely and not to fit in. Also, a tip to those who are more militant and dont shave or “conform” in anyway: This is good for you, because you have the will power, but it is terrible for society because you reach less
people. If you care about younger girls and you approach them in such an “extremist” way they are going to be afraid and reject you. To get people to trust you first
assimilate (and as I mentioned, the visual impression is the first) and then help them with their self-esteem. Teach them about freedom and rights. But if they are not strong enough to fight their own battle, dont insist them and push them into it. I mean, feminism is about liberty and awereness, right? Teach them that if they dont want to do something they dont have but, not that they shouldnt. Becaus ethen you are imposing your own “look”.
In my case, I try to dress well, I swimm everyday and try to look my best. I do this for myself and for the person I am with. It was really tough for me going out with my gilfriend and be surrounded by male models, and at the beging it was intimidating. And I know what it is like. So I just learned to accept my virtues and flaws, live with them and try to improve. Thats the message that should be transmited, “acceptance and self-improvement”. Also, realize that healthy relationships are more than skin deep. But still want to look my best.
October 13th, 2006 at 10:07 am
I understand where you’re coming from, Alejandro, but I think you’re completely missing the point of this post.
A) No, it’s not “natural” to want to attract the opposite sex. For one, I’m queer. A lot of other people are, too. And some of us don’t care so much about relationships anyway. So…that doesn’t even apply to all people.
B) Not shaving is not unhygienic, nor is it unsanitary, and it’s not equivalent to being unwashed and smelly and in filthy clothes. If I wear pants, no one can tell. Men don’t have to shave and that’s the socially-accepted norm. (I know some men do but that’s also considered kind of weird.) I can’t believe you’re arguing that I need to do something which HURTS my body (causes rashes and skin problems) and is, frankly, a pretty expensive habit (what with paying for razors, shaving cream — which I must have, I can’t just use soap because of my sensitive skin — etc) in order to look good.
C) Same with makeup. Bad for the skin, potentially toxic, and fucking expensive to maintain. I am broke. I do not have the money to spend on that shit (you may think it doesn’t cost much, and that’s true, which should tell you just how broke I am) even if I wanted to wear it.
D) Actually, same with high heels and bras. I physically cannot wear heels. They are too painful. And do you know how much a decent bra costs? Ugh.
E) Why do I have to wear makeup and shave to look my best? I can look make myself look good without either of those; I dress nicely, shower daily, brush my hair, etc. My body the way it naturally is, is fine. I look my best when I’m well-rested and not too stressed out. I naturally, by definition, am “my best”.
F) The point is not that I’m purposely trying not to conform. (Although there’s nothing wrong with that.) The point is that, in doing what is best for my health and my wallet and personal comfort, I happen not to fit the “ideal” image of femininity (although, frankly, I’m conventionally pretty, so I’m still very close). And that should be okay. It should be acceptable to simply be clean, well-groomed, professional. I shouldn’t have to make excuses why hair removal hurts my skin and wearing heels hurts my back and feet, but even when I do state my reasons, those reasons need to be respected as legitimate. Even if my reasons aren’t related to my health or finances (like, I really hate bras. no real reason.), that should be respected as a legitimate preference, too.
If refusing to conform to social beauty standards for reasons of health and personal comfort is “radical”, well…fine. You know, I agree: I think it is. But that’s pretty sad that it’s so.
October 31st, 2006 at 11:41 am
[...] As I wiped down the counters and tried to get life back in order after everything being in disarray from several weeks of intense work, work, work, I started thinking about something that bugged me earlier. I read it at Definition. Earlbecke wrote about women who wear makeup and sexy clothes and so forth, arguing that no matter what the justifications, we’re doing it because we live in a sexist society. [...]
October 31st, 2006 at 11:50 am
[...] And now we are right back at the discussion we had, albeit briefly, about lipstick and feminsim over at Definition and Alas. And there was another great post criticizing what I said but I’m damned if I can find it now and I’m pissed for not bookmarking it. I commented briefly on it. If you’re reading, remind me so i can link to it. You wrastled through my claims and insisted that you do believe that there is a self outside the social….. Anyone else know which post I’m talking about? [...]
November 4th, 2006 at 10:16 am
[...] One continuing source of frustration for me is the fact that in every single “debate” (I use the term loosely) about shaving, makeup, and other (American, white) cultural beauty standards, everyone seems to miss the real point. When I post about it, of course I get the obligatory male response telling me how I need to alter myself to properly fit cultural norms in order to “look my best”. Hell, even other feminists have occasionally posted comments which amount to “well, if women sometimes want to wear heels/whatever to feel pretty…” [...]
December 6th, 2006 at 8:12 pm
There’s no such thing as an entirely free choice these days. Not only in terms of beauty routines, fashion or hygiene.
You see, the moment you are born into this world, your gender will influence whatever choices you will make in the future. (If you’re a guy, it is impossible for you to choose to give birth in the future because your biology simply won’t permit that)
Your parents’ income will affect your choices of the clothes you wear, the food you eat, even the quality of your health, or the school in which you’ll be studying (because, although it is possible through a scholarship, you will find it harder to study in Harvard or Yale if your parents are minimum wage workers)
Your standards of right and wrong, how you choose between what’s right and wrong somehow was influenced by how your parents or guardians have disciplined you.
Your future choices were influenced by past and present events that shaped you into the person you are now.
Given all these, I believe there is no such thing as a totally free choice.
As for your main points on high heels, bras, shaving and makeup
1. I wear high heels all the time–to the point that I am no longer used to wearing flats. I wear heels all the time I can run in 4-inch stiletto heels provided they don’t break. I started wearing heels as soon as I got out of my highschool uniform (back then, shoes with uniforms should be low heeled). I started with a 2-inch heel so that I can walk properly, this with a doctor’s prescription (It is impossible for me to walk properly in flats, given I have fallen arches, so heels lift my arches and make walking more comfortable for me). As my Achilles tendon shortened because of my feet have adjusted to wearing heels, I started to favor higher heels (such as the 3-4 inch heels I wear everyday.)
2. I wax my legs (when I have to expose them) and my underarms (because I feel cleaner with hair free underarms. Sweat accumulates less, so therefore, less possibility for body odor).
3. As for makeup, I do not think it takes a lot of my time. I can do my entire face in 5-10 minutes. Most cosmetics I have are helpful to my skin (and not toxic) because they have added SPF. (We need SPF to protect our skin from UV rays since the ozone layer is already nonexistent)
4. As for wearing bras, I do so because I feel cold without underwear! Especially when the room is airconditioned, I don’t like it when my nipples stand, and I believe that wearing a good, supportive bra can prevent breasts from sagging.
Clear skin, nice breasts and pleasant body scent are favored because they are usually indicators of good health. Your skin, for example, erupts when you are sick or when you lack sleep, so therefore, smooth skin can be an indication that you are healthy.
Also, I don’t see anything wrong with taking good care of yourself–your body. I really don’t see anything wrong with wanting to look your best. You see, your body is one means through which you present yourself to the world. (You cannot separate yourself from your body in the sense that, where you are, there also is your body). We only have one body so it’s important to take good care of it–our skin and faces included.
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to look your best. However, you are not compelled to trying to look your best if you don’t want to.
December 6th, 2006 at 9:26 pm
I won’t lie Pia — your comment makes me really angry. First of all, there is absolutely no proof that bras prevent breasts from sagging, and there is actually proof that they cause them to sag more by damaging the connective tissue of the breast. In any case, breasts will sag eventually, it’s natural, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. You can wear them if you want — personal comfort is what’s most important, but for me, they are intensely uncomfortable. As for heels, I cannot wear them without excrutiating foot and leg pain. Is that “taking care of myself”?
And why is it you believe that just because I don’t wear make up I’m not taking care of myself? I do. Just because I don’t put blush and eyeliner and lipstick on doesn’t mean I don’t use facial cleanser and lotion for my oily, dry skin, and that I don’t use lip balm for my lips, or whatever else. I take care of my skin and face by not putting chemicals on it which irritate my skin, by not giving myself a rash by shaving or other methods of hair removal on a consistant basis.
But most of all, I really take exception to the insiuation that I have to physically alter myself to look “my best”. My body, however it is, is by definition “my best”. I am my best and I don’t need to spend time and money to try to buy perfection. My best isn’t something I can buy from a store. My best isn’t something other people get to judge. My body is good enough, just as it is, because it is my body and it’s what I have. I really, really, really, hate being told that to be “my best” I have to do whatever it is everyone else thinks I should do when it damages my self esteem and makes me uncomfortable. Fuck that.
And if people judge that I’m not worth their time and attention just because I do what makes me happy, frankly, I’d rather they judge me. I don’t want people like that in my life.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:40 am
I’m talking about what works best for me. I’m sorry if you misunderstood me. But you know, I’m talking about what I think works best for me. And what makes me happy
And besides, the author of this entry asked us to give reasons why we do the things we do. And I gave my reasons as to why I wear heels, bras, makeup,and remove unwanted hair.
I’m comfortable in heels
and you’re not (so don’t wear heels).
I like putting on makeup and that extra 5 minutes wouldn’t hurt
(and you don’t like putting makeup then don’t).
I like wearing bras because they make me feel warmer and make my clothes fit better (that’s not the case for you so you are not compelled to wear bras)
If you don’t think all of the above things are what’s best for you, then by all means, don’t do them. No one’s forcing you to. (I said no one is compelled.) And when I say, “your body” I’m referring to the general population, not to any particular group or person. I’m trying to speak to everyone (to myself included).
What I have written are not facts nor are they universal laws. They are opinions which you may, or may not subscribe to.
December 7th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Btw, lipbalm and lotions, while they may not be makeup are still considered cosmetics.
I specified things you do to take care of yourself, and not just those mentioned in the above article.
You and I have different ways of taking care of ourselves.
Putting on makeup is just one way that some people can look their best. It IS NOT the ONLY way.
And if what other people tell you damage your self esteem, it only means one thing–that you MAY not be secure enough in your own skin–to have other people’s opinions damage something as important as your self esteem.
As for me and for everyone else, we should do these things to please the person we see when we look at the mirror (ourselves) and not anyone else.
And I do what pleases me. And that includes depilating, putting on makeup, wearing high heels and good, supportive lingerie.
December 7th, 2006 at 10:22 am
May I add also, I believe high heels can be pro-feminist for those comfortable wearing them. (Carolyn Cox’s Stiletto is one of the books that fascinate me).
And yes, although I would want to look my best as I define it (and that definition happens to be “conforming” to societal standards), I consider myself a feminist. Why? I believe that men and women should be equal (and by equal I don’t mean they should be the same). I believe that women in my family (myself included have become at par, if not way better than our male counterparts. I don’t believe that my opportunities were limited just because I am female (I graduated from a reputable university and two weeks after got employed with a high paying job, which may I add, my salary is equal, not less than that of my male counterparts.)
I believe that from where I come from, the society is pretty much egalitarian–or at times, even matriarchal.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:44 pm
Great post. You said it so much better than I could have! (I found this while googling “feminism high heels.”)
April 24th, 2007 at 4:01 am
Yes, I think it social pressure. I don’t wear make up, and I’ve been told by numerous people, most noticeably my mum, that people will think I don’t care about the way I look, or that I don’t bother to take time to look good.
I wash and brush my hair. I wash my face, I brush my teeth, I wear clean clothes. That, to me, is me taking care of my appearance. I am clean and neat. That is all I need to be to feel comfortable. So my face isn’t picture perfect. So I’m not covering up the spots on it. Fuck you. Make up would make my spots worse, and even if it didn’t, I still would hate make up.
I don’t shave my legs, but I do shave under my arms. This is my own personal choice, because I like wearing sleeveless tops, and because I have dark hair, it is extremely visible.
May 3rd, 2007 at 11:03 pm
I don’t recall how I found this post, but I have to thank you for discussing this issue. I don’t wear makeup unless I’m going to some sort of really dressy social event — not because I feel like I shouldn’t, but because I have no idea how to put makeup on, and it seems like a waste of ten minutes that could be better spent sleeping in or reading or daydreaming. I don’t shave, either — at least, not usually — but that’s always been a nonissue for me, since I wear jeans most of the time and I’m not sexually active, so no one knows.
I have asked my friends who do wear makeup (and that’s most of them) why they do, and the overwhelming response seems to be “It shows that I respect the people I’m dealing with.” Which confuses me terribly, since I certainly respect them, and I don’t wear makeup. I mean, it’s not a conscious choice that I make — “Well, I don’t take Dr. So-and-so very seriously, his class is lame — I’M NOT GONNA WEAR MAKEUP! HA.” I have no idea what this whole “makeup = respect” thing says about our society, other than that it’s kind of fucked up and hard to justify. But, in the interests of more data for people to work with, I share it.
Another weird thing I’ve noticed, as a short pudgy girl who wears no makeup, is that my makeup-wearing tall thin acquaintances are constantly offering to give me a makeover so that I can be more confident. I’m not confident in my looks, but I fail to see how being forced into putting makeup on and wearing (to me) uncomfortable clothing will make me more confident. They also like to tell me that I would be so pretty if only. I need to get a haircut and wear makeup and low-cut tops and heels and maybe contacts and that will make me an interesting person and I WILL GET A GUY. Oh, so tempting. Only can’t I have a guy who shares my interests rather than just my (actually, someone else’s arbitrarily imposed) aesthetic tastes?
May 7th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I’m not a hardcore MUST ALWAYS WEAR MAKEUP person. However, at times, I do like to do so. When I do, it will be anything from simple to just outrageous. For me, it’s all about being silly and fun. It isn’t about being prettier, because I think like all women I’m already as stunning as I’m already going to get. ^_^ I worry about those who feel they need it to BE “pretty”. I’ve met many a girl and woman like that, and it always saddens me. I’ve tried to tell them what worthwhile beings they are, and how much beauty they possess inside and out. It always fails. They don’t want to hear that from me. They want to hear from a man that they have worth, and it’s because of that damned societal pressure.
^_^; I’m also guilty of shaving, but not for anyone else. In fact, I’ve often been told that I don’t “have” to shave by men and women alike. I’m always having to explain that I don’t shave for them, it is for me. If I don’t shave/wax, I end up obsessively plucking at the hairs constantly until I cause serious skin damage and bleeding. I don’t know why it bothers me to have hair on my body, it just does. o_O
As for my fashion sense, it runs the spectrum: The tomboy look all the way to the really hyper lil princess look, with some smatterings of combining genres and styles in ways that piss off the various clichéd groups here and there. In the end, it’s all about me, and having fun my way. ^__^
May 9th, 2007 at 2:30 am
HOW TO DECONSTRUCT MEN`S NOTIONS ABOUT BEAUTY ?
I´m a mid-aged hetero man. Found this blog while looking for some help to get rid of -or at least ease- some beauty notions I just realized how strongly entrenched are in my mind and psyche. I was raised by a woman –my mother– who advocated some form of feminism –women right`s movement– who taught me a lot about what is to live as a woman in a latin machista culture. I also learned from her femminist literature. That shaped my ATTITUDES toward women and manhood. But I am also a product of media and the consumerism culture of my highschool, and this has, no doubt, shaped what my EYES find attractive in woman`s body (a girlish face, big eyes, sinous-but-not-fat body). I never thought of it as a big “problem” because an extrovert and intellectual personality was really more important to me. Many times I have chosen that over “beauty”. Now I´m in a relationship with a woman of my age who has a lot of virtues, of course, and a femminist herself. But a few months into the relationship I began to see her through those “beauty” schemas I never thought so entrenched in myself. I suppose that happened because she is rather shy, so I began to log/look for some other way to anchor to her. Or maybe it`s because we are talking about a more “serious” relationship, so what was unimportant before became important. I fear that will come a moment when I will feel attracted by a more extrovert and “beatiful” woman.
Though, I want to accept her “as she is” as I have done in previous relationships. I feel I can live with her shyness, it doesnt bother to me if she does not uses lipstick or shaves legs, but I am not very happy with her slim boyish body (remember we are latinos, not anglos) and the way she dresses. How can I dismantle those “beauty” schemas off my psyche?
I see it is possible for women to, step-by-step not to conform, but what about an hetero man? WHE IT COMES TO DISMANTLE THOSE SCHEMAS IN MYSELF IT FEELS LIKE FIGHTING THOSE VERY THINGS THAT MAKE ME TO DESIRE A WOMAN… So I try to deconstruct it… but sometimes it feels like violence to myself… Please don´t miss what I mean, I advocate men should fight those schemas. Thus women (hetero, lesbian, bi) may be really free to choice their looks… that fight should be done in the media, shchools… Yes, even what we desire is learned… learned from our culture.
Maybe I just don´t know how to do it… re-shape my schemas of beauty so they may fit the looks of my girlfriend… OR NOT HAVING ANY SCHEMA AT ALL, so I can like and desire any body (even a male one?) But can´t prevent myself from looking at other women and thinking they look “better” than my girlfriend… It would help if she became more extrovert or/and if she accepted to have her hair done, maybe use some make-up, wear “nicer” clothes… But this fall short of an intrusion into her self… And she may be shy but always speaks up to her principles… I suppose there must be a way to deconstruc myself, something I don´t kwow. Maybe talking about it would help…
May 11th, 2007 at 8:30 am
You know, that’s an interesting question, Oscar. I feel like I can relate to you here, since I’m queer and women certainly get the same messages about what makes women attractive in this culture.
I don’t know what the answer is for you. But for me, I suppose what it comes down to is this: if I really like someone’s personality, I don’t honestly care what they look like or how they dress. I find someone attractive if I’m attracted to who they are as a whole. I often find myself surprised by developing crushes on people who definitely are NOT my physical type because we have something else in common — and the things is, even though they’re not my physical type, I’ll still think they’re incredibly sexy even if I normally wouldn’t.
If she’s really not what you find physically attractive and she’s also lacking the personality traits that normally attract you to a women, this might just be a sign of a larger incompability. (And I definitely hear you on the attraction to women with fuller bodies!) It sounds like your problem is more with this particular women than with beauty standards in general.
BUT…I also think it’s possible to un-learn your attractions and learn to be attracted to different things. This happens to me a lot; who I’m attracted to really depends on what my priorities are at the time and what I want out of a relationship. (Generally, this determines whether I’m more interested in men or women.) I think this happens to a lot of people.
Lastly, I wouldn’t feel so guilty about looking at other women and comparing them to your girlfriend. I don’t think it’s a GOOD thing…but you can’t really control your thoughts. When you think things like that, remind yourself that isn’t who your girlfriend is, but don’t beat yourself up about it.
July 17th, 2007 at 10:59 am
I don’t give a shit how I dress when I’m out having fun.
As for make-up… I suppose this is the artist in me, but occasionally I enjoy applying it and matching it to a really snappy outfit. I like the way it looks. Perhaps I am going along with an internalized standard, but I notice that I have never worn high heels or anything uncomfortable in my weird fashion statements. *shrug*
This article made me think of professional dress codes… Even though the women in my family dress however we want on the weekend, we really dress feminine in the professional arena. My mother spends forty minutes each morning getting dressed for her job at at law firm, even though she wears T-shirts and paint-stained jeans on the weekend. She has seen her colleagues fired for not adhering to their very strict dress code. We’re conforming to a standard, but honestly an uneducated older woman like my mother is very lucky in today’s competitive job market to rake in a secretary’s income instead of minimum wage.. Wearing make-up could be considered a dire sacrifice, but honestly I see no way to absolutely refuse femininity without ending up in the poorhouse or ironically depending on our husbands for our salaries, lol…
That said, professional dress codes should NEVER force women to wear uncomfortable/unhealthy clothing in name of looking pretty.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:43 pm
I’m fully behind you on this.
The reason I wear makeup isn’t to please men or to look good. It’s because all my makeup has SPF 15 in it.
I have incredibly fair skin. When I was eight, I spent thirty minutes out in the sun in Mexico without sunscreen (my mom forgot), and it burned me so badly that you can still see a reddish mark now. Tha’s why I put the foundation on, to protect it. Also, I put on regular sunscreen. The makeup I have has a really cool, UV-protection thing that lasts for HOURS.
The reason I shave my legs is because I live in Texas. I do NOT need the extra heat. If I lived in Maine or Alaska, I probably wouldn’t shave, except for my underarms (to put deodorant on), and vagina.
Those are my good, nice, you-can-see-why reasons.
NOW FOR THE BAD ONES. =D
I wear mascara because I have large, expressive brown eyes and dark, long lashes. I put a little on because otherwise, my eyelashes look spiderclumped. It’s yucky to me.
I wear lipstick because it’s FUN. = DDD I don’t wear the stupid red or pinks, but ORANGE! =DDD My lips are big, so red gloss looks um, -vulgar-.
August 7th, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Oh, and I wear a bra because my boobs bounce if I don’t. o.O
And on the legs-shaving-thing, I only shave below my kneecaps because it’s too much work on the top part of my legs.
August 7th, 2007 at 10:55 pm
Usually I don’t comment on posts, but I wanted to share my story. Forgive me, tis long.
I started shaving my legs when I was nine because my stepsister and stepmother told me that my hairy legs were disgusting. When my mom found out that I had begun shaving, she told me that the hair would just grow back darker and thicker. Her words came too late. By someone telling me straight out that I was not acceptable with hairy legs and pits, I became self-conscious and began shaving at least once a week. I hated shaving.
When I turned twelve, my female peers began wearing makeup and always asked me why I didn’t. Feeling left out, I asked my mom if I could wear makeup, and she said I could once I turned thirteen. My thirteenth birthday came around, and I asked again. My mom told me I could once I turned fourteen. Well, once I turned fourteen, I experimented with makeup a few times and friends gave me makeovers at parties, etc, but I really wasn’t into it. I felt fake and the makeup just melted off anyway.
My mom took me shopping for my first bra when I was twelve. She was against me shaving at such a young age and she didn’t want me wearing makeup because I didn’t need it, and yet there she was, scaring me into getting a bra. She threatened that my breasts would sag to the floor by the time I was thirty if I didn’t keep them harnessed with an over-the-shoulder-boulder-holder. So I gave in.
Because I was so uncomfortable with the acts I had to perform to be acceptable, I found ways to rebel. During the winter I wouldn’t shave my legs because no one would see them anyway, makeup was expensive and made my acne worse so I refused to wear it, and I usually wore sports bras because my breasts were very very small and no cupped bras fit correctly.
But now I’m seventeen, and I know that every time I give into the pressure of shaving my hairy body, wearing makeup, or wearing a bra, I do as much damage to my self-esteem as my body.
One day, about a year ago, I woke up and said “I am not shaving anymore!” Unfortunately social pressure and lack of willpower caused me to shave my legs once every eight to ten weeks. I got tired of family members making comments about my legs, so I would eventually remove the hair. And afterwards, I would hate myself because I caved into the pressure. I am making improvements, however. The last time I shaved, which was about two weeks ago, I did not shave for anyone but myself. Summers in Texas are rather hot and humid, and mosquitoes have always loved my blood, and quite frankly I could not medicate the insect bites on my legs properly because the medication would never make it to my skin for all the hair! I didn’t meticulously shave, though. I kind of skim shaved, leaving little trails of hair behind because it wasn’t really necessary to remove them.
As I’ve already mentioned, I’ve tried wearing makeup, but alas, it’s just not me. My face has cleared up thanks to drastic diet changes within the past year, and though I occasionally still break out, I really don’t want to clog my pores by wearing makeup. The only three things that go on my face are water, soap, and aloe vera. I’ve tried facial moisturizers but apparently they’re too oily for me. My face might have a few red dots on it every once in awhile, but when I look in the mirror, I know I’ve done everything I can do to take care of myself, so I love the whole person I’m looking at, zits and scars and all.
And finally, the burning of the bras. About two weeks ago I found out that wearing a bra drastically increases the risk of getting breast cancer. Since then, I have not worn a bra, even to work, where I am the only female. I wear what the guys do- jeans and a t-shirt. Of course, I wear two undershirts underneath my t-shirt so my nipples don’t show. Two weeks and no one’s noticed a thing! Wish I had done away with bras a lot sooner!
I know my post is rather long, but I hope that someone reads it and feels inspired enough to stop pretending to be a plastic Barbie doll. Becoming an all natural woman with hairy legs, a multi textured and skin toned face, and sagging breasts should not be considered extreme, for this is how nature intended us to be. We are beautiful no matter what we look like under all the layers of makeup and clothing. Besides, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and as long as you love what you see in the mirror, what everyone thinks doesn’t matter! Why should women conform to society’s standards when it endangers our health? I say, let the BRA BURNING REVOLUTION CONTINUE because women have not been liberated yet!
October 26th, 2007 at 8:09 am
I think that men are fickle creatures. I know what my husband’s feelings are on the ideal women, big boobs, tight butt, etc., yet I also know that he accepts me for who I am, with all of my imperfections. He gives me my strength, and I know that he’s behind me 100% of the time even if I don’t fit into his “perfect” woman.